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<  Design concepts  ~  MMO

Mekree
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:53 am Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 5 Location: Gainesville, Fl
***Hi I am in the process of trying to plan out an MMO for creation. I currently play WoW and it inspired me to take an imaginary world I had created and turn it into an MMO. I have created 14 classes to be played by 11 races. I had created over 400 skills for these classes and really attempted to go in depth on the different classes and make each unique and offer a wide variety for players. With the exception of one basic 3-D model all of this work is nothing more then some sketches and a lot of words. I have designed professions and cities and mobs and NPC's. Basically what I am looking for on here is feedback and ideas and maybe a cool group of people who can help me with this dream. Here is my first concern.
***Right now there are three playable factions that are loosely designed. There's the SYN Empire, the Vener Spice Combine and the Order of the Blade. The first two are pitted against each other in war where as the last is a free for all group that can play for either side. Any character upon creation can choose any of the three factions. The benefits of choosing one of the two opposing factions is they will provide better gear, protection and support. The benefit of choosing the mercenary faction is being able to do whatever you want. The problem with this is that by not being in the other two factions you don't reap all the benefits of being in a major faction. The Order of the Blade is much more loosely organized with less perks. I fear that by not forcing certain people into certain factions like most games there is too much player control that may lead to chaos. Also there may be a lack of identity for players. The reason I like it is because any race/class can join any faction they want and aren't stuck to one group.
***I am also concerned about the large number of races and classes. I made so many so that people who wanted to be tanks, casters, healers and light fighters weren't stuck with a couple classes. In WoW you have two true tanks, four healers, like three casters and two light fighters with many classes fitting acting as hybrids between two. My 14 classes are split into 3 tanks, 3 healers, 3 casters, 4 light fighters and 1 tank/healer hybrid. I don't want to write too much but I would love some feedback. Thanks.
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Mekree
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:49 am Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 5 Location: Gainesville, Fl
I see that 21 people read my post but am very sad that no one could reply to me. Sad
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Wildbluesun
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:19 am Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 4266 Location: London, Land of Tea and Top Hats
Patience! Shocked It hasn't been two days yet! This forum's not real-time, y'know.

And as for your 21 views, sometimes I read a thread and go back a few hours later to reply. And I bet there's people who read it, thought "interesting, but I have no useful skills" and didn't reply.

*cough* OK, enough with the ranting...

I don't have any skills to help you on the technical side, but I can help proofread ideas. You say you're concerned about classes and races; more information, please? (I don't really play MMOs, but I can offer a second opinion; though I would ask you to go easy on the jargon. Wink)


Last edited by Wildbluesun on Thu May 08, 2008 8:15 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Michael
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:44 am Reply with quote
Site Administrator Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 8065 Location: Gent, Belgium
Some punctuation, paragraphs and bullets would greatly improve the readability of your post...
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TNT
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:19 am Reply with quote
Joined: 16 Oct 2007 Posts: 118 Location: Lurking throughout the Forest.
Forgive me for playing devil's advocate here, but there are some things that stuck out to me as I read your post.

In the grand scope you're talking about, you will need MANY people to aid you in your vision. Not to mention the balancing of professions and skills. I can see that you have many other details figured out, but what about the history of this world in your game? Any mythology? To make something that will draw players in and keep them there, you will need something with depth and richness, something that can feel "real" to the players. They will want to care about this game.

However, I really shouldn't be responding to this. The only MMO I play (aside from The Endless Forest) is Guild Wars. So I don't have much experience with this field.

But if you are truly serious about your idea, then you will need a good company to back you. Gather up your ideas, organize them, make the project idea as polished as possible. I'm not clear on how it all works, however. Most often I hear about those who already work in the gaming industry who are the ones most likely to see their ideas come to life.

How different will this game be to others already out there? What will make this one stand out from the rest?

Also, don't bloat your idea. Too many classes runs the risk of some getting left out in favor of another who can do the job better. In Guild Wars, at first there were 6 professions; warrior, monk, ranger, mesmer, elementalist, and necromancer. And now, after the 2 games that followed, that profession list grew with the addition of assassin, ritualist, dervish, and paragon. Sure, it gives a lot for the players to work with, but the balancing of skills is a pain. It all has to work without making one profession better than the rest. You will always need weaknesses and strengths within each class.

Back to the balancing of professions, I play necro as well as ritualist in GW. And since we use secondary professions in GW, I've found that ritualists make better minion masters than necromancers. The fault there lays within the primary attributes. Ritualists give more life to the creatures they create, whether spirit or animated (minions), not to mention the other skills used when creating creatures. But that is only a case in point. I don't know any other details about your professions/classes. This whole part in my post is probably irrelevant, since it mainly points out the flaw in secondary professions. And with your idea of 14, I doubt there will be anything like that.

Will the game concentrate more on PvP or PvE?
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Mekree
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:44 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 5 Location: Gainesville, Fl
Thank you guys for your response and I will respond to each of you in detail but as for now I have to go and will have to postpone these comments.
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Mekree
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:29 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 5 Location: Gainesville, Fl
Wildbluesun I am sorry about being impatient but I have posted ideas and thoughts on this game before and either been completely ignored or been insulted and laughed at. Before posting here I read through many of the other posts and saw what I thought was actual constructive criticism and positive ideas in what appeared to be an actual online "community". This excited me about possible opinions you guys could give me. I have had some help from a friend but for the most part it has all been me so far so I guess you could say I had been starved for input from others, especially people who seem intelligent. I will be more patient from now on. I am trying to get a website running that would display information on all classes and races and you wouldn't need much MMO experience to be able to offer ideas for lore and practicality.

Michael I'm sorry I was actually trying to avoid jargon and stuff like "this MMO wub b a good idea 4 ppl who luv 2 play MMO's" lol. I tried to be articulate and avoid crude and simple abbreviative (I know, not a word) language and I thought I used my punctuation quite well. As for paragraphs I tried to reflects those with the **s I used and now realize that was stupid and should have just double spaced. Confused That shouldn't have taken that much thought. I am also really trying to familiarize myself with the finer detail of this dialog box and am not sure where bullets are.

TNT What I hate about many fantasy games out today, especially MMOs is they are mostly based in the worlds of orcs and elves. These and other similar fantasy people are so played out that they are moving away from fantasy and into reality. My game would have no orcs and no elves and most importantly NO HUMANS! They always manage to sneak their way into every game every created!!! Smile I have created several original (original considering most all ideas are taken and very few things today are 100% original) humanoids that would be playable races. I also have tried to define some original classes while utilizing well known ones such as warriors and sorcerors. I am not familiar with the classes in Guild Wars and should maybe better inform myself about them.

The lore for my game has been deeply developed for generations preceding the time period of the actual game. This world has been my brain child for over 10 years and has seen many revisions and evolutions in its time. The complexity of the world I have created on paper and in my head and want to create in 3-D form would make the game take very long to complete because of the quantity of lore I'd want to instill.

As for creation I know that as of now this is a shot in the dark and I will need 100's of people from designers to artists to technicians to creative minds to even begin production. I have no access to any of that right now except for hopefully some creative minds on here and else where. What I am hoping to do on here is get feedback and ideas for the project and open myself up to other people in hopes of receiving help and support. I know that even if a big company decided to create my game today I would still be several years away from playing it because these games are very complicated. I am a very private person who is truly in love with the world I have created but I am trying to open up to others because I need to and am interested in outside, unbiased opinions. I am very serious about this project and I know this may sound corny or lame or stupid but I am really excited to be talking to people about it so thank you.

Please guide me from here on anything you might want to know because I don't know where to start.
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axcho
Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:31 am Reply with quote
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 66
Let's see what I can offer.

Since it sounds like you've gotten plenty of discouragement already from people telling you that this is an impossible task, I won't bother saying that. Wink

I can't offer my time to actually help create this, but maybe I can give you some advice instead.

I have never played an MMO, at least nothing with classes and skills and typical RPG elements, so I don't think I'd be able to give you any specific suggestions with designing those. My own preference leads me to avoid games like that in favor of those that follow a new and different formula. Because of this, I might tell you to come up with an idea that doesn't use classes, skills, or levels, at least not in the way they've been used before. But it sounds like you like that kind of game, and your imagined world is particularly suited to that sort of structure. So I will not insist that you invent something new.

I agree that worlds of orcs and elves are tired and overused. Even more than I want an MMO world without typical RPG elements, I want one with a new setting that is interesting and rich without falling back on orcs and elves. So I am glad that you are proposing a world that avoids using the "standard" fantasy races.

I guess that the best thing now would be for you to give us some more information, so we can better advise you. Here's my understanding so far: You have designed a world - a cosmology, an IP (intellectual property) - with plans to turn it into an MMO. I don't know what sort of other skills you have that could be relevant, like story writing, drawing, 3D modeling, programming, web development, or others. If you have any special skills or knowledge that you think would be useful, would you tell us what they are, and maybe show us some examples of what you've done so we can get a rough picture of the extent of your abilities?

Assuming that your main role in producing this game would be to manage the world design, the most important thing you can do is to communicate your ideas clearly and convincingly. You will need to convey your ideas, and what makes them so great, to many people: people like us, from whom you are asking advice; people with money, who decide which projects and teams of people to give that money to; and people on your team who are doing the work of actually turning your vision into something real. As a designer, you must become an expert at communication.

Communication is not restricted to speech, or writing, or just conveying the facts. You want to use whatever methods you can - images, websites, presentations, whatever - to make it easy for someone to understand what you are imagining, what it feels like, why it's better than other ideas, how it might work, and why they should care. Using line breaks between paragraphs is a good start. Wink You also mentioned that you're working on getting a website up with information on your idea - that's good, post a link here once it's up. And if there are any drawings or images that you think would help us understand your vision, post those too.

Looking forward to seeing your ideas. Smile


I should mention that I'm not a professional, I'm just a student who spends a lot of time learning and thinking about this sort of stuff. I have not made any big projects like the one you are proposing, I've just heard the advice of people who have. So maybe I don't know exactly what I'm talking about. But the people who do are too busy to help you. Wink
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Wildbluesun
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:55 am Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 4266 Location: London, Land of Tea and Top Hats
I have one useful skill: writing. I can write...fairly well. I'm absolutely rubbish compared to tons of people out there, but I think I can write better than average Joe.

Then again, I could be wrong.

So I could help writing NPC dialogue, or dressing up mythology in words that're pleasant to read.

If you want to see my work, StoryWrite works well:
http://storywrite.com/user/show/Wildbluesun

Err...what else can I tell you...published in two poetry anthologies, but poetry's my weak point and they were competitions, one by a vanity publisher for some publicity, the other a schools thing. Don't ask me to do rhyming schemes. =/
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Mekree
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:45 am Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 5 Location: Gainesville, Fl
Okay once again you guys got me thinking about a lot of stuff. I am also a student who just thinks about this stuff all day. Can you recommend some of the games you like to play axcho so I can look into them?

What I mostly bring is the vision. I know this is a damn near impossible task and it is completely impossible for me to create a game like I want on my own or without the support of a major company. What I saw of the Endless Forest impressed me and amazed me so much on how cool it looked. If I could create a program like that or just a fraction of that I would hope it could garner the support of a company.

My friend actually does some 3-D designing and he has created a 3-D model of one of the playable races. I have also shown him this site. I have another friend who is going to help me create a quality website. WHat is happening right now is that we are all finishing out our college semesters and don't have the time. We are hoping that by the end of the month a website with be up and running with concept art, 3-D models and tons of information.

I like your writing Wildbluesun and I think it would be important to have several different writers to bring different personalities to different characters.
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Wildbluesun
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:38 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 4266 Location: London, Land of Tea and Top Hats
Thanks! Smile I can try writing different styles (StoryWrite doesn't have any of my character-based work...that tends to gather dust on my computer) if you want.
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axcho
Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:44 am Reply with quote
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 66
Hmmm, what games I like to play?

Take a look at these examples. None of them are perfect, but they are all interesting for different reasons.

Super Mario 64 (retail)

Black & White (retail)

flOw (free)

Knytt (free)

Toribash (shareware)

Ragdoll Masters (shareware)

There is one indie MMO in production that looks very interesting - you might want to check it out: Genesis
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Anuket
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:57 am Reply with quote
Joined: 26 Dec 2007 Posts: 70 Location: Under a rock
Mekree wrote:

The lore for my game has been deeply developed for generations preceding the time period of the actual game. This world has been my brain child for over 10 years and has seen many revisions and evolutions in its time. The complexity of the world I have created on paper and in my head and want to create in 3-D form would make the game take very long to complete because of the quantity of lore I'd want to instill.

I find myself in the same situation. I've had a dream for almost 12 years now, to see the universe I've made becoming either a movie or a game, hopefully both. There has been no day I haven't thought about the story or the universe!
Sometimes I even think if the whole thing is futile, but I can't make myself stop evolving the universe. And neither should you;)

Right now I'm studying game design at NITH in Norway hoping to become a concept artist or anything similar. If you have no chance to get any education connected to game developement I will say you should try developing your art and writing skills by either taking a class or book study. Of course only if you need it Wink Understanding a bit how gamedeveloping works is also handy and you can probably find out more about that on the internet. Then you should try visiting or writing to some local gamedevelopers. If you are lucky you can try joining newfounded game companies as it can be a plus to have been with them from the start. If you know someone who's good at programming, 3D design and so on you can even try to start your own company, but this is risky.
This is probably more to get you into the industry, but it is a start. A portefolio is very handy! Show them your best ideas and you ability to create new interesting concepts! A nice way to polish you ideas is to ask people you know and show the your ideas. What sounds great to you, may not sound so good to others(when doing this, try finding people you think will like your idea, no use asking people with completely different opinions, because they will probably not be the persons to play your game). Also try making your writings/drawings/paintings/explainings/etc as much similar to how you want it to look. This can be hard, but it will help you make others understand what and how you want the game to be.
All the things above are tips we was giving at the start of semester at my university.

Mekree wrote:

I am a very private person who is truly in love with the world I have created but I am trying to open up to others because I need to and am interested in outside, unbiased opinions. I am very serious about this project and I know this may sound corny or lame or stupid but I am really excited to be talking to people about it so thank you.

Fully understandable as I have the same experience. I have tried to tell my ideas to friends, but have failed in many ways to express how I really want it too be. And I am hungry to show the world what I can create. I started by using the art community of www.deviantart.com as a place to express my ideas and have so far recieved positive feedback. But bevare, when you submit pictures or ideas on a website it has great chances of being stolen. Mark your pictures/writings well with name, date and/or insignia!!! Anyway it is a great way of getting response on your ideas and concepts and also your artistic skills. Many great concept artists has started on sites like DeviantArt Smile

Hope any of this is useful. If not, just ignore me ;P

Mekree wrote:

What I hate about many fantasy games out today, especially MMOs is they are mostly based in the worlds of orcs and elves. These and other similar fantasy people are so played out that they are moving away from fantasy and into reality.

Thank you! Someone finally said it!

ps: Pardon my english Wink It is kinda crappy
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Anomalocaris
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:11 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Posts: 50 Location: the Cambrian ocean
Hey Mekree,

You may be at the point where it's good to zoom in on just a very few of all those ideas. Make something concrete. You have 14 classes and 400 skills; OK, now write a little game (or story) of, for instance, an encounter in a forest between just 2 characters of differing class/race with a set of skills you give to each.

That may seem like a pesky little task, but (a) it forces you to do, not just dream, (b) it tends to bring up all kinds of interesting stuff you hadn't thought of before, (c) it leads to something which more easily gets other people's attention. There's time to expand later! Smile
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