top_image
Author Message

<  Design concepts  ~  Is interaction all that important?

Michael
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:12 pm Reply with quote
Site Administrator Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 8065 Location: Gent, Belgium
MoriartyL wrote:
Will Wright wrote:
But if you play the game in that way and build a big mansion full of all these cool plasma TVs and hot tubs and stuff, you'll find at some point that something's always going wrong, and the Sims are running round having to deal with maintaining the objects. The game is tooled so that they promise to save you time but beyond some point they actually become a huge time sink.
(link)

That's actually not true because you can hire other Sims to take care of stuff for you. Playing with one of the rich prefab families is a lot easier than starting from scratch.

In any case, The Sims requires a certain amount of cruelty from the player. And I disapprove.

And I don't see how "a huge time sink" is a good thing...
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Michael
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:18 pm Reply with quote
Site Administrator Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 8065 Location: Gent, Belgium
MoriartyL wrote:
(...) you're going to need things for the player to do. Why not the game mechanics which are tried-and-true and fun in their own right?

Because they distract the player from the story. Unless the story is about something that can be expressed in game terms. Which is not the kind of story I tend to appreciate.

MoriartyL wrote:
Now, if you can do so many things just with simple fighting (provided you're thinking on that level), imagine how much more you can do with lots of different game mechanics, placed to bring out different emotions at different times.

Be my guest. Smile
And please post links to where this little miracles can be downloaded.

MoriartyL wrote:
So why are you so convinced that new kinds of interaction are necessary?

Because I cannot express the stories I want to deal with in game terms.
Perhaps this is simply because I'm a bad game designer. But then I'll make something else. Is that so bad?
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
MoriartyL
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:36 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 69 Location: Israel
Michael wrote:
And please post links to where this little miracles can be downloaded.
Ha! If only. I'm with you on the general level of creativity among videogame designers.

The closest I've seen to what I'm describing is The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, which I'm sure you wouldn't enjoy. That game had some moments which I find very interesting from a storytelling perspective. For instance, the moment when you leave your home village to find the bigger world evokes a very complex emotion in context through fighting, world design/exploration, and a camera angle. Sadly, those moments were few and far between. I've never played a whole game with a focus on emotions.

Michael wrote:
MoriartyL wrote:
So why are you so convinced that new kinds of interaction are necessary?

Because I cannot express the stories I want to deal with in game terms.
Perhaps this is simply because I'm a bad game designer. But then I'll make something else. Is that so bad?
Of course not. I guess (not knowing from experience) that must be part of discovering yourself as an artist- finding sorts of interactivity which speak to you. But then we're not talking about principles anymore, just your personal style.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
axcho
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:57 am Reply with quote
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 66
E.B wrote:
Well, I don't. I strongly dislike most games. I'm in games because I see the potential, I think.
Hey, same here. I'm sick of games and game culture as it is now, but I am in love with what I see in the future.

But I still use the tools, or try to. Smile

On the topic of interactivity, I just finished a project that's a non-interactive Flash piece, not an animation or a game but an environment that you can only observe. How do you think it fits into this discussion? Take a look - Spring Rain.
View user's profile Send private message
JPGInc
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 3:42 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 31 May 2008 Posts: 16
Shocked WOW.

That was a very interesting read, kind of inspiring to a growing game designer. I think computer games are art. Isn’t art just an expression of one's self in some form? I think the reason that computer games aren’t as artistic as other forms of art is because it's still in its infancy. I’m sure when music and drawing and even story telling were in their infancies they would have been used just as a bit of fun. Something to make people laugh and smile, not anywhere close to the depth that is achieved in this more modern age. And thats exactly what computer games are used for now, we use them to have fun or escape the world.

On top of that now days to create a great game you most likely need a large team of people all working together, kind of difficult to be an "expression of ones self" when it's not able to be designed by the person who had the vision. As opposed to back in the earlier days where a single person could create a game from a vision in his head and sculpt it into what came out on the computer screen. On the flip side now, with the advance in technology, so much more can be accomplished in games! I believe, in time, games will far surpass any other art form because it has something unique and that is interactivity.

What I would love to see is a massively multiplayer game that is simply a world that the player can log in and interact with. When he logs out the world doesn’t just stop functioning it continues interacting with itself. If you were to leave it for an extended period of time and then decide to come back it would be completely different world. But you can alter the world significantly through the actions you make.
View user's profile Send private message
Wildbluesun
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:41 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 4266 Location: London, Land of Tea and Top Hats
JPGInc wrote:
What I would love to see is a massively multiplayer game that is simply a world that the player can log in and interact with. When he logs out the world doesn’t just stop functioning it continues interacting with itself. If you were to leave it for an extended period of time and then decide to come back it would be completely different world. But you can alter the world significantly through the actions you make.

That sounds like Second Life to me. O.O

(Note that I've never played Second Life, though I have read a lot about it. So I'm probably completely wrong.)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JPGInc
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 5:05 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 31 May 2008 Posts: 16
Never played second life either but i was actually thinking more of a medievil world or magic world. Dunno why just always loved that kind genra.

Oh i read a couple of the stories on your website. I really enjoyed 'To Fly' and 'To Fight' they were well written, especially for a 16 year old. I look forward to reading some of the others when i get time.
View user's profile Send private message
path to home
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 5:08 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 886 Location: At your request
Second life is amazing Razz

I play it and you can literally do ANYTHING. its free, you might want to try it out. it is completely user created and the only limit is your imagination
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Wildbluesun
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 5:47 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 4266 Location: London, Land of Tea and Top Hats
JPGInc wrote:
Oh i read a couple of the stories on your website. I really enjoyed 'To Fly' and 'To Fight' they were well written, especially for a 16 year old. I look forward to reading some of the others when i get time.

You DID? WHY? D=

But thank you...To Fly and To Fight are some of the better things I've written, most of the others fall short of that standard (the competition they were written for had ultra-high expectations, so I worked especially hard). I'm glad you've enjoyed my writing.

I'm actually 15. Wink
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JPGInc
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:35 am Reply with quote
Joined: 31 May 2008 Posts: 16
lol, you had a link to the stories in one of the threads thought i might as well check it out. I wrote a story about ants taking over the world when i was like 5, well, i started writing it then freaked myself out and stopped...I still hate ants!!

I wish i could find it again, I think it would be a laugh to read but like many things it's lost on an old 200MB hard drive somewhere in the bottom of the sea
View user's profile Send private message
Wildbluesun
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:42 am Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 4266 Location: London, Land of Tea and Top Hats
Going over old artwork is always fun. XD What's quite odd is reading six pages of badly-phrased, poorly-characterised, semi-plagiarised work and suddenly coming across a single sentence that you can't believe you ever wrote, ever, and that you certainly wouldn't write now, because you've moved so far away from your old style that you forget the good things (even if they were few) about it.

That's when you start learning things.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Redkora
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:38 am Reply with quote
Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 1491 Location: Here.
Quote:
I want to be sucked into virtual worlds, I want to become part of their fiction, I want to believe in them, live them for a while. I don't want distraction. I don't want tests. I don't need to be graded or rewarded. I just want to be.


Me too, Michael. Me too. I'm tired of being asked to complete an unnecessary series of finger gymnastics for some silly unlock or to complete a silly time trial in a game. I just want to experience a game's environment and story. If a game is good enough, it doesn't need the extra "time challenges" or rewards for killing a certain number of baddies.

This is not a perfect analogy (if a good one at all), but the original Tomb Raider (funny, I keep going back to that game) had a statistics overview at the end, but it was not treated as a part of the game that the player should care about. My impression was that the game was about the player being able to go on a fantastic adventure in a great story. I personally did not care about how fast I went through the game or how many secrets I found. I loved the story, and loved the environments. I would often reload older saved games so I could go back to those environments for the sake of appreciating their beauty and the time the developers took to create them. I do the same in The Endless Forest.

Tomb Raider: Anniversary bastardized the original vision of Tomb Raider, in my opinion. I know the new company, Crystal Dynamics, wanted to make it popular for most gamers today to make a profit, and this only makes the game seem worse. The original Tomb Raider did not have that same sell-out feel to it. Then again, I was twelve when I first played Tomb Raider 1. The thread on Tomb Raider 1 vs. Tomb Raider: Anniversary is here.

Core Design was making their version of Tomb Raider: Anniversary, but I honestly don't think it would have been much better than Crystal Dynamics's version.

Then there's a game called Dark and Light. It never really got off the ground, but people who play it say that it's great fun to explore the environment for its sake, and this is what most people end up doing. I can't get it to work on my computer, though.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
halogen
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:22 am Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 389 Location: That one place.
Hmm, very interesting.

Here is why a game is art to me, and this is only because I'm an artist. Both drawing and playing games relieve stress. They both allow me to step outside of myself. Same goes for music and movies and reading. Not necessarily a distraction though, no. For many people yes, but for me all of them are another way in which to observe interactions. I like to see the interactions between characters in games. Then again I have always been pretty good at putting myself into other people's shoes, so direct interaction between the me and the game isn't really necessary for me to have a good time. (That may explain why I don't like board games or card games very much.) Customization is also fun. I like to be able to create my own art using the game, almost like another medium.

Ok, I'm definitely taking notes in this section. xD
View user's profile Send private message

Display posts from previous:  

All times are GMT + 2 Hours
Page 5 of 5
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.

Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum