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<  Design concepts  ~  The presence of goals

the_architect
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:44 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Posts: 4 Location: Coimbra, Portugal
another great book to be used as set and gameplay tool inspiration might be "the invisible cities" by italo calvino. anyone read this one?
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axcho
Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:49 am Reply with quote
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 66
the_architect wrote:
another great book to be used as set and gameplay tool inspiration might be "the invisible cities" by italo calvino. anyone read this one?
I've never heard of that book, but I'll check it out sometime. Smile
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Chentzilla
Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:56 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 2
Wildbluesun wrote:
The Little Prince...

That would be a marvellous game, if done properly.


Super Mario Galaxy?
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Wildbluesun
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:18 am Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 4266 Location: London, Land of Tea and Top Hats
Never played it. XD

But somehow I doubt it...
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Chainsawkitten
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:17 am Reply with quote
Joined: 04 Dec 2008 Posts: 154 Location: Sweden
Michael wrote:
A film ends, a book ends, a song ends.
I disagree.

A film, book or song does not have to end. Although it has physically come to its end and stopped playing or moved on to the next track, it does not necessarily mean that it has ended.

I'm particularly thinking of Thursday's song Into the Blinding Light. Its sudden and abrupt ending always made me think that the song was not really over, but it cointinued unhearably, and that the story it told is still repeated, in real life, all the time.
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TwoEars
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:15 am Reply with quote
Joined: 03 Jul 2007 Posts: 2398 Location: Down by the Bay.
Chainsawkitten wrote:
Michael wrote:
A film ends, a book ends, a song ends.
I disagree.

A film, book or song does not have to end. Although it has physically come to its end and stopped playing or moved on to the next track, it does not necessarily mean that it has ended.

I'm particularly thinking of Thursday's song Into the Blinding Light. Its sudden and abrupt ending always made me think that the song was not really over, but it cointinued unhearably, and that the story it told is still repeated, in real life, all the time.

I truly agree with this, the piece of music or whathaveyou may have come to an end but it can easily continue on in your mind forever.


When I was younger I had an idea to create a game in which a player's character would have a randomly selected social class within a complete medieval world. While the player was logged off their character would be an npc with set actions but when logged in the player could create quests for others to fulfill (perhaps leaving the quests avaliable while in logged-off npc mode) and play their character however they chose which could include moving up or down in social ranking. Hopefully this would lend the game freedom and motivation at the same time.
I gave up on the idea as being too complex for a 9th grader with no game creation skills to ever make but maybe eventually.


I find that the "goals" (basically interacting with the environment and other deer of course) of the forest are not enough to keep me coming back on a very regular basis. However I do play (however irregularly) and love the game for its artistry.
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Michael
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:07 am Reply with quote
Site Administrator Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 8065 Location: Gent, Belgium
TwoEars wrote:
I find that the "goals" (basically interacting with the environment and other deer of course) of the forest are not enough to keep me coming back on a very regular basis.

But is this necessary?

I watch/listen to my favorite movies or musical pieces much less than I watch/listen to trash. Simply because those favourites are so beautiful and moving or because they require so much concentration that I just can't handle them casually. Most of the time I'm just happy knowing that they exist.

But even if the game isn't very deep or moving, I find that there's nothing wrong with a game that you just play once in a while. In fact, that's how we intended The Endless Forest to be played. So you're doing it right. Wink
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Ymedron
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:22 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Apr 2008 Posts: 176 Location: Finland
I think some goals are needed... Humans are like that. Even if the game doesn't have any goals, humans create them themselves, like "I want to make a lot of friends!" or "I want to have fun with these other deer!" I myself don't play the game at all, because I just can't find anything fun to do. I had one goal "I'll play at least until my deer would grow up." And they are now... And I find nothing.

Even if the game has no set goals, it should have the room to create some. For example, if the Endless forest had a lot of different colored butterflies, you could set a goal to either see them all, or catch them. When fulfilling those goals, you can have fun with others whom you happen to come across.
Because of this the new Achievement-system in WoW is so popular; Even if it rarely gives you no reward, you want to fulfill them, so the old dungeons have been kind of revived, because people want to do the achievements. In the past I never saw Onyxia's (a female black dragon) head, but after the achievements appeared, I've not yet seen a day without someone slaying her.
I like to watch good movies and read good books, and after I've read them, I usually replay the events in my head. I can't feel happy just knowing they exist, because I long to read/watch them again.

Just my little opinion. Very Happy
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TwoEars
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:29 am Reply with quote
Joined: 03 Jul 2007 Posts: 2398 Location: Down by the Bay.
Michael wrote:
So you're doing it right. Wink

Look guys- I'm doing it right! I'm winning the game without goals!

Not really, I just found that last bit of the reply rather amusing. Laughing

Ymedron wrote:
I think some goals are needed... Humans are like that. Even if the game doesn't have any goals, humans create them themselves,
Ymedron wrote:
Even if the game has no set goals, it should have the room to create some.
Ymedron wrote:
I like to watch good movies and read good books, and after I've read them, I usually replay the events in my head. I can't feel happy just knowing they exist, because I long to read/watch them again.

Very good points there!

I think some of the motivation to be a part of the TEF community is not the game but the chance to bring ideas and concepts that may eventually be implemented. I think it is a hidden motivation for may players to at least have their concepts accepted by the community as nice ideas, to get some response from the fellow players, to one day see some idea of yours find its way into the forest. In this way we may all be making unknown goals for ourselves, even if no one is conscious of the want or goal.

I'm tied so maybe that didn't make so much sense, but it's ok.
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Hubalaboo
Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:38 am Reply with quote
Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 116 Location: Canada
Just want to say, The Little Prince has in fact been made into a game. It's a bit old, and it's on a CD-rom, but my library always has it (along with some other fantastic games by the same company) and I play it again now and then.
Unfortunately I think the company changed their english name (it used to be Tivola) and website or something, I can't manage to find it. Here's their Dutch website, for some reason they kept Tivola as their name here...
http://www.tivola.de/

Here's the link for The Little Prince on Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tivola-101804-The-Little-Prince/dp/B00004TTHU

Another game by them, called Alphabet, and another of my favorites!
http://www.amazon.com/Viva-Media-26752-Alphabet/dp/B000056WJY
A review of it: http://www.gtpcc.org/gtpcc/alphabet.htm

And one more, Masters of the Elements, it's very hard (but a touch of genius nonetheless!)
http://www.amazon.com/Viva-Media-21542-Masters-Elements/dp/B00005NFTV/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1232757316&sr=1-1

Just wanted to pop in with this info. Smile
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Liëka
Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:51 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 15 Nov 2007 Posts: 3799
The Little Prince... a beautiful story. One of those where you get out what you put in, and you can read it to be as deep or shallow as you like. <3

What's the game like?
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Hubalaboo
Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:49 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 116 Location: Canada
@Liëka: Well, I think if you search around a bit reviews are easy to find, but when I play it... I'm not sure how to describe it (I actually haven't read the whole book, only bits and pieces)...
It's not a very large-scale game... But you're free to explore, and nothing is really forced to you, there's a bit with the fox but I've got to say that part is my favorite, it's too adorable!

Basically, you start out with a unique menu screen; the universe, with the different planets and many stars floating around. You move around with your mouse. The stars sometimes blink, or twirl and dance, and there is faint music in the background. Almost all the planets are clickable to bring you to different parts of the game, like how clicking on Saturn takes you to the original book for you to read or listen, and how Earth brings you to the fox game.
The book has the author's illustrations in it that are often animated as you read. I find this to be a great detail.
The art is a mix of 2D watercolor for the backgrounds and soft quaint 3D for the characters and objects. The combination really works well! The sounds and ambient music fits, too.
Only one thing I always have a problem with is how it can get slow and lag a bit here and there (that might be just because of a damaged disk, though, since mine is always from the library). It is a pretty old game, just keep that in mind. I think it's still worth getting, though, especially if you like the book. Smile

I wish I could find some good screenshots! I'm sure they would help give you an impression of what it's like...
I found one, but it's super tiny: http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/Tivola/prince1.jpg
It's the Prince and the Fox, together on Earth.

Maybe first just check your library to see if it's there, and try it out?

Wow, long post. Sorry! ^^;
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Liëka
Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:53 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 15 Nov 2007 Posts: 3799
Hah, as if it would be in my library.

What country are you in? I'll look out for it, it sounds really good!
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Hubalaboo
Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:25 am Reply with quote
Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 116 Location: Canada
I'm in Canada Smile
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Liëka
Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:42 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 15 Nov 2007 Posts: 3799
...hrm.

It's unlikely that it spread to the UK, then, but maybe...! *goes game hunting*

But perhaps that's enough off-topic now. XD
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